Tag Archives: Job Seeking

It’s here! Orders to Nowhere is now a book!

Posted by Mike Grice on

It’s finally here!  The first edition of Orders to Nowhere is available in print.  It will be six to eight weeks before it shows up in bookstores, and a week or so before it hits Amazon.com.  If you want to avoid the wait, you can order it straight from the printer by clicking the cover:

Orders to Nowhere

Since you are a loyal reader and follower of the blog that got it all started, you can use the discount code ZVGYFQ28 and save 10% off the cover price.

Thank each and every one of you for reading and following my journey through transition!

Orders to Nowhere: The Book!

Posted by Mike Grice on

Coming soon!  The launch date is expected by be no later than November 10th, but hopefully sooner. I’ll post a note as soon as it goes live.

Written over the two years of navigating the often frustrating and always confusing waters of military transition, Orders to Nowhere is finally available in print!

Orders to Nowhere is the essential insider’s guide to military transition.  Demystifying the uncertainty and ambiguity that surrounds getting out of the military, Orders to Nowhere is the comprehensive After Action Report of a career Marine’s transition from the tightly knit military world back to civilianhood.

Tens of thousands of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen transition back into the civilian world each and every year. The change from life in uniform to life beyond the military is a significant emotional event for everyone who experiences it. Hanging up your uniform for the last time isn’t easy, and Orders to Nowhere was written to help explain the overwhelming process and make it easier for military members planning to get out, while they are in the midst of transition, or after they become veterans.

Mike Grice is an award winning writer, retired career Marine, and intrepid explorer of the military transition process.  Orders to Nowhere is the journal of his experiences , but it is also the story of every Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, and Coast Guardsman who takes off the cloth of the nation and goes back to civilian life.  Written during the author’s adventure through the trials and tribulations of transition, Orders to Nowhere eases the pain by giving an inside look at the widely varied aspects of military to civilian transformation.  Things like:

 -making the decision to hang up the uniform
– telling your boss that you are getting out
– the administration and logistics of moving on
– the emotional roller coaster of transition 
– effects on family
– transition decorum and ceremonies 
– the details of military retirement benefits
– transition assistance classes
– dealing with the Veterans Administration
– VA disability claims
– the Post 9/11 GI Bill
– finding a job
– how to dress like a professional
– writing a resume and cover letter
– networking
– interviewing for a job
– salary and benefits negotiation 
– adjusting to civilian life
– and much, much more

The book contains over 160 lessons learned and recommendations that can help anyone going through the military to civilian transition avoid making costly mistakes.  The path back to “normal” life is anything but normal, and Orders to Nowhere is the traveler’s guide that every member of the military and veteran needs to ease the pain of the journey.

A must for every man and woman in uniform to help make transition as smooth as possible!

Jobs for veterans: companies that are really stepping up

Posted by Mike Grice on

One of the most distressing parts of making the jump from wearing the cloth of the nation back to the civilian world is finding a new way to make a living.  Nobody in the military does it for the money (well, nobody I ever met) but money keeps all of us from living in a refrigerator box under an overpass and begging for spare change.  Transition is stressful, and with a down economy and the news filled with negative reports about high unemployment and low wages many veterans see unemployment and even poverty as real possibilities once they get out.

Fortunately, there are some really great companies in this nation of ours who have stepped up and pledged to bring veterans on to their rolls.  Whether it is from a sense of civic duty, recognition that military folks have skills that employers really want, or simply for the positive press that it generates doesn’t matter.  What matters is that firm after firm is opening their doors to veterans.

Good on them, I say.  And thank you!

Many of these companies have been in the news lately.  I won’t attempt to rewrite the stories that are already bouncing around the net, but here are links to a few that I found to be compelling about companies that are reaching out to veterans:

10 COMPANIES THAT ARE ‘HEAVY HITTERS’ IN HIRING RETURNING SOLDIERS

Wal-Mart Plans to Hire Any Veteran Who Wants a Job

Michelle Obama to Keynote Disney Event on Hiring of Military Veterans

Again, a huge thank you to those businesses that recognize the value of our veterans.  Countless veterans can breathe a little easier and avoid thinking about refrigerator boxes thanks to the prospect of a job on the other side of transition.

The importance of differentiation

Posted by Mike Grice on

There are many career paths that you can take in the military.  The obvious ones include those that involve fighting, but there are a whole lot of jobs that don’t.  For every infantryman who carries a rifle into harm’s way there are anywhere from three to ten or more men and women in uniform who make sure that the grunt on patrol has the ammunition, water, fuel, and everything else he might need.  Every tank has a crew of four, but before it rumbles into the fight dozens of mechanics and ordnance specialists and electricians perform hours and hours of maintenance to make sure that the vehicle is in tip-top shape.  For every naval aviator who catapults from the deck of an aircraft carrier there are thousands of shipmates aboard who do everything from chipping paint from the rusty decks to keeping the nuclear reactors on line to making and serving chow.

Those jobs are all crucial in order for the military to accomplish its mission of keeping the nation safe.  Interestingly, within the military itself, even though all of those duties are important there is a definite difference in the prestige associated with them.  In the Marine Corps, for example, the infantry is considered to the ultimate expression of the service; everything else as they say is just support.  In the Air Force it is the fighter pilots who have ruled the roost for decades, and in the Navy the ship drivers and aviators are those who wield the most power.  For the Army, it is the infantry and armor branches that hold the most distinction.

Unfortunately the most prestigious positions in the military are also those with the least direct corollary to civilian employment.  There are no civilian infantry battalions, fighter squadrons, tank platoons, or aircraft carriers.  There are, however, plenty of jobs in those support areas that are often viewed as second class within the military.  The civilian world does not need artillerymen, but it does need electricians.  It needs truck drivers, and mechanics, and logisticians.

In short, the civilian world needs people with definable and useful skills.

Skills, for example, that an employer can put to work immediately without taking the risk of hiring someone who may or may not know enough about the business to be effective.

Unfortunately, many of the skills that those in uniform who have spent the majority of their time at the pointy end of the spear have developed are not directly transferable to the corporate sector.  Being a leader is great, and undoubtedly the leadership skills that our warriors have gained in Iraq and Afghanistan are first rate.  That is great for the military because leading people to do amazing things is what the military is all about, and the best military leaders we have are those who are dedicated to mastering their craft and being the most proficient soldiers or sailors or Marines possible.

Leadership in the civilian world is leadership in a different context.  An infantryman can demonstrate his leadership through arduous training, bravery, and a consummate grasp of tactics, weapons, and equipment.  By being a first rate infantryman, he can lead by example and inspire his fellows and juniors to shoulder their loads and step out to meet the enemy.  The best leaders we have are those who are the best at what they do: they are the best infantrymen or tankers or pilots or ship drivers.

The civilian world is no different.  The best CEOs are those who have dedicated themselves to learning their businesses inside and out.  They inspire their people to great achievement by understanding their industry and markets and customers and then being able to align the company’s employees to meet their goals and objectives.  They challenge their people and recognize those who excel.  Instead of using medals to motivate their corporate troops, they use other things such as money and stock options and trips to the Bahamas.  They lead by example and are masters of their craft.

It is here that the perception that many military leaders, particularly those in the combat arms, runs awry.  I cannot count the number of conversations that I have had with my peers and friends in uniform in which we talked about how we, the combat leaders, had all the skills that would make us tremendous leaders and invaluable assets to any company that would be lucky enough to hire us.

How wrong we were.

Sure, corporations want great leaders.  Every company does.  They also want people who know their business or have a skill that the firm needs.  Therein lies the rub, and brings to mind a story from my days as a young and motivated Captain:

I once had an officer who was a student of mine at the artillery school.  He was a graduate of the Citadel, which is a renowned military college in South Carolina.  As a cadet there he rose to a high position of leadership in the Corps of Cadets, and he was without a doubt a fine leader.  That said, he was a lousy student.  When I asked him why this was so, he answered that he joined the military to lead men and learning about how to load and fire an artillery piece was interesting but not particularly relevant to his desire to be the next MacArthur.

I explained to him that leadership is not something that you have because of rank or position, but instead it is something that is earned through the respect of those you lead.  He would never be a good leader in the artillery if he did not show that he was a solid artilleryman, and to be a solid artilleryman he had to learn how to load and fire an artillery piece.  People who show up and start barking orders without knowing what they are talking about are idiots, not leaders.

That is the point that so many people in the military miss.  Sure, we all developed leadership styles that inspire young men and women to enthusiastically throw themselves into the crucible of combat, but those styles were largely based on our professionalism and mastery of our martial craft.  None of those same people would have followed us if we didn’t know what we were doing.

The lesson here is that if you, as a military leader, want to bring your talents to the civilian world you will need to more than just be a “leader”.  You will need to differentiate yourself and show that you can do more than just lead.  Can you read a balance sheet?  How about a profit and loss statement?  Do you understand marketing, or finance, or accounting, or any of the countless other things that make the business world run?

The corporate sector has lots of great leaders.  How would you feel, as an infantryman, if the CEO of a company was hired to become your battalion commander and take you into combat?  Would you follow him?  Of course not.  Why, then, do so many military folks drink their own bathwater and believe that they corporate sector is waiting for them to leave the service and take over their businesses?

To be competitive in the job market it is important for each and every person who transitions from military service to find something that they can offer a potential employer besides war stories.  Those who have learned a skill or trade, while maybe not being on the front lines and earning medals for valor, take those skills with them when the leave the service.  That is their point of differentiation that separates them from all of the other candidates for a job.

As a leader, what is yours?

Learning a new skill: Salary and benefits negotiation part 1

Posted by Mike Grice on

In the military one learns a good many things:  How to stand at attention and march smartly about.  How to carry and shoot a rifle, and how to live out of a backpack for weeks on end.  How to fix a tank or fly a jet.  Lots and lots of things.

One thing that you don’t learn, however, is something that everybody else in the business world learns with their first job: how to negotiate.

Negotiation is a very important part the employment process.  When a candidate is offered a position with a company he or she begins the discussion of compensation with the hiring manager, where things like compensation, benefits, hours, vacation time, career progression, retirement plans, insurance, and countless other things that are part and parcel of employment.  In the corporate world all of these items are negotiable, and both job providers and job seekers know it.

In the military the situation could not be more different.  When a young man or woman joins the military they are provided a comprehensive pay and benefits package, but it is one that is set by law and regulation.  There is no negotiation for a better salary or more flexible hours — in fact, there is no negotiation at all.  The pay, allowances, and benefits for military folks are no secret, either.  The pay scale, which is based on rank and time in service, is readily available on the internet as are all of the other  benefits, special pay conditions (such as jump and dive pay), and housing stipends.  When you join the military you get what you get, just like everybody else in uniform.

As a result of the defined pay and benefits in the military those in uniform never engage in the process of employment negotiation, and that can place them at a disadvantage when they hang up their uniforms and enter the civilian world where everything is negotiable.

Everything from the salary you will earn to the amount of vacation you can take to where you can park your car is on the table.  It is up to you, the job seeker, to get the best offer that you can, and if you don’t know to engage in the back and forth of negotiation then you risk leaving valuable things on the table.  There is one guarantee in negotiation: you will never get things that you don’t ask for.

Fortunately, you can arm yourself for such a negotiation by doing a little research and preparing for it.

The research bit can make an enormous difference in the negotiation process because it can provide you with valuable information about the company and what you can and can not ask for.  You can surf the internet (at sites like www.glassdoor.com or www.payscale.com) and ask your friends and contacts (especially those in the industry you are entering or work at the company) about what the average salary for your desired position is as well as the benefits package that the firm offers.

As the job seeker you have leverage in the negotiation up until the point that you accept the job offer and the terms that it contains.  Once you say “yes” the negotiation is over, and you are highly unlikely to be able to change anything.  At that point anything that was left on the table will vanish like a thief in the night.

So what are the types of things that you can ask for?  Here is a quick list of twenty things that many companies will entertain and which may or may not be similar to military benefits:

1.  Performance bonuses.  Can you make more money if your performance merits it?

2.  Flexible hours.  Maybe a four day week with longer workdays?

3.  Work location.  Work from home?

4.  Overtime pay.  How much will you be compensated for working extra hours?

5.  Retirement plans.  What kind do they offer?  How much will the company match in a 401K?

6.  Vacation time.  You received 30 days a year in the military, and the base in the civilian world is two weeks, unless you negotiate for more.

7.  Travel expenses.  Can you get  company car?  Mileage compensation or a gas station credit card?

8.  Non-monetary compensation.  Can you earn stock options or fully valued shares of the company’s stock?

9.  Career flexibility.  Can you create a path that starts in one area of the company and then move to another?

10.  Time off.  How about personal days?  Sick days?

11.  Health care.  Is health insurance included?  What are the deductibles?  Is there an on-site clinic?

12.  Insurance.  You had SGLI in the military at a steeply discounted rate.  Does your employer offer life insurance?

13.  Meals.  Is there a company cafeteria?  Are meals subsidized?

14.  Child care.  Can you bring your child to work?  How about a nursing room for those who wish to nurse their infants?

15.  Tech equipment.  How about a company phone or laptop?

16.  Discounts.  If the company produces goods, can you purchase them at a discount?  Is there a company store?

17.  Memberships.  Will the company provide memberships to a health club or gym?

18.  Travel.  Will you be expected to travel in coach, business class, or even better when you travel?  How about upgrades?

19.  Education.  Will the company pay for you to pursue an MBA or other educational opportunitity?

20.  Relocation expenses.  Will the firm pay for you to move your family to the city where you will work?

These are only the tip of the pay and benefits iceberg.  If you don’t do your homework and come to the bargaining table knowing what you can and should ask for you will get less than you could have.

In my next post we will prepare for the negotiation by rehearsing and doing a little self examination to make sure we do the best job possible at the bargaining table.

__________

Lessons learned:

– Military benefits are set.  Corporate benefits are not.  To get the best salary and benefits possible you are going to have to negotiate for them.

– Not all companies offer all benefits.  You need to do some research to see what the company offers, and then be prepared to ask for them.

– Salary is usually the biggest aspect of the negotiation, but it is not the only element.  Unlike the military, many corporate benefit packages are tailored to the individual employee.

– Use your network of contacts and the internet to research what will likely be on the table during the negotiation.  Don’t look foolish by asking for something the company does not offer, and don’t forget to ask for something that they do.

After the interview: Now what?

Posted by Mike Grice on

So you have just finished interviewing with the company of your dreams.  As you walk out the door you need to remember, though, that even though the meeting part of the interview is over the whole process is not yet done.  You still have some work to do to finish it up.

Or, if you don’t want the job that badly, you can just get in your car, drive home, and have a cold one to celebrate the time that you wasted on the interview and the job opportunity you missed out on because your competition is going to go the extra mile and finish their interview properly.  The choice is up to you.

The smart thing to do is to continue to treat the job interview like a date.  Just as you want your relationship with a pretty girl or handsome guy to get more serious the same can be said about your interest in the company.  You are certainly curious as to how things went during the interview because you to want to step things up a notch and get into a meaningful relationship with the company.  Just like you want your date to call you back the day after dinner and a movie you desperately want the hiring manager to give you a ring with good news.

Even though you have left the building there are still several things you can, and should, do to increase your chances to land a job.  If you don’t do them the worst that will happen is that you won’t land an offer.  If you do the following things, though, you still may not get a job but you will come away from the experience with a stronger reputation and a better understanding of how to become a better candidate for employment.  Here, in my humble opinion (and in the opinions of many hiring managers) are the things that you should perform after the interview:

1.  Make some notes about the interview.  What questions were you prepared for?  What questions were you unprepared for?  What was the interviewer’s name and title?  You should have exchanged cards during the interview, and the back of the card is a good place to jot down the interviewer’s preferred form of address (“Mr. Smith” or “Bob”, for example).  You should take notes while the interview is fresh in your mind because otherwise you will forget those brain-hiccups that you had, and if you forget them then you are likely to repeat them again in future interviews.  I recommend getting a small notebook dedicated to the interviewing process and using it as a logbook or journal to record your post-interview notes.

2.  Send a follow-up note to thank the interviewer for their time and attention.  In the note make sure to use their preferred form of address (that you remembered to write down on the back of their business card as soon as you left the interview) and be sincere in your message.  You should be professional and courteous, but not overly familiar.  After all, you are still making an impression, and a poorly written note will do more harm than good.  Here is an example of a short and acceptable thank-you note:

Dear Bob,

Thank you for the opportunity to meet with you on Tuesday.  I am very excited about the opportunity to join XYZ Company, and I learned a great deal about the firm during the interview.  Our discussion about the corporate culture and dynamic work environment reinforced my strong desire to join the company, and I think that my skills and experience are a great fit for the _________ position.  I feel that I can be a strong contributor to the firm.

If you need to contact me for any follow up questions or additional information I can best be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx or via email at mike@anymail.com.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Mike Smith

3.  As you close out the interview ask the hiring manager for the best way to contact them in the future.  This is important because it gives the interviewer an opportunity to establish expectations for future communications.  He or she may be open to a call or email or may prefer that you wait to hear from the company before you contact them.  Make sure to pay attention!  You can shoot down your chances at a job if you call them after being asked to wait.  Just follow their lead.

4.  Think hard about your experience at the interview.  Are you going to be a good fit at the company?  Did you learn anything that was unexpected or that is not in line with your goals?  If you did, then do some serious soul-searching in order to decide whether or not to continue pursuing a job there.  Don’t just take the first job that comes along if it is not a good fit.

5.  Be ready for the company’s call.  It may be a letter, an email, or a telephone call, but regardless of how the firm reaches out to you the news will be either good or bad.  This is where character really counts; if the news is good then it means that you have a follow on interview in your future or a job offer letter on the way.  If the news is bad then it means that you will need to look elsewhere for a job.  If the news is good then you need to be humble, respectful, and thankful for the opportunity to work with the company.  If the news is bad, then you need to be humble, respectful, and thankful for the opportunity to interview with the company.  Even though you did not land a job with that particular company it doesn’t mean that you can be a jerk about it; remember, you are building a reputation along with your resume.  If you are obnoxious because you didn’t get the job the word will get out.  If you are respectful, the word will get out too.  The hiring manager who did not hire you may know of a company that is looking for someone with your skill set, and if you make a strong positive impression it may help network you into a new opportunity.

Remember that the hiring process does not end with the interview.  It ends with either a job offer, an invitation for a follow on interview, or a rejection.  You can improve your chances for a job offer by following up on the interview.

__________

Lessons Learned:

1.  Write down your impressions of the interview as soon as possible so that you can learn from it.  You want to make your strengths even stronger and eliminate your weaknesses, and the only way to effectively do that is to learn from your experience.

2.  The interview is not over when you walk out the door.  Hiring managers are people too, and sending a thank you note for their time is a nice touch that will be noticed.  It is a normal part of the hiring process, and if you don’t send a note then you are behind others who do. Send the thank you note immediately after the interview.  If you had to travel to the interview, then write the note and drop it in a local mailbox to ensure that it arrives quickly.  As the saying goes: “Strike while the iron is hot.”

3.  Reflect on the interview.  Did it reinforce your desire to work there or uncover some negative aspects about the job or the company that make you have second thoughts?

4.  Be gracious when you finally get the results of the interview.  This may take a while because the hiring process at most companies takes time, so be ready to wait.  When you get the news, be respectful and courteous regardless whether it is good or not.  Remember, your reputation is always growing, and if the word gets out that you are a jerk it will hurt your chances elsewhere.

Interviewing, Part 4: Military-specific considerations

Posted by Mike Grice on

As you interview for your dream job there are a few considerations that you need to keep in the back of your mind.  Unlike civilians who are free to pursue any and all employment opportunities, you may actually be precluded from taking advantage of some of the prospects out there because of your status as a member of the military.

There are several areas of consideration that can seriously affect your future career and, if you are not careful, cost you thousands of dollars or land you in jail.  This is not an all-inclusive list or discussion on the subject, but instead a look at three aspects of post-military employment that can get you into trouble.

First is the most obvious one: your security clearance.  When you leave active duty your clearance becomes inactive.  That said, if you join a company during terminal leave or accept employment with a firm that requires a clearance before you get out, the company can keep your clearance active by adding you as an employee and sponsoring your clearance.  If, however, you are unemployed (technically, even for one day) after you get out then your clearance will need to be reactivated.  You have up to two years for reactivation, unless your reevaluation date is less than that.  Top Secret clearances, for example, have a five year shelf life.  If you get out at year four, then it is only good for another year.  So you need to be careful on your resume and be sure to list your accurate clearance status (e.g., “Top Secret Clearance active until 2014” or “inactive Secret Clearance”).  You don’t want to misrepresent yourself as having a clearance that has lapsed or expired!

Second is the concept of Conflict of Interest.  In a nutshell, this is a situation in which your work while in uniform places you in a unique position to either profit from your position or have undue influence over the matter at hand.  An example of this is a contracting officer who can influence the spending of government dollars on a particular contract; he may be enticed to choose one bid over another if his future job depended on it.  The same goes if he influences his military connections after he gets out to bias a contract decision.  Not all instances of conflict of interest are as obvious, however.  If you are seeking a job in your specialty area (which is perfectly logical and normal) it is a good idea to get a copy of the job description and show it to a Staff Judge Advocate (military lawyer).  They can give you an opinion as to whether it conflicts or not.  This is a big deal because often the simple appearance of a conflict may create problems whether a true conflict exists or not.  Better safe than sorry….

Lastly, and most interestingly, is the rule against foreign employment.  The Emoluments Clause of the U. S. Constitution prohibits any person “holding any office of profit or trust” in the Federal Government from accepting any gift, emolument, office, or title of any kind from any foreign state without the consent of Congress – and that includes retirees.  In order for you to work for a foreign government you must first receive permission from your service secretary, as in the Secretary of the Navy, Army, or Air Force.  Needless to say, this is not a simple process!  You will need to apply for a waiver from the Secretary in advance otherwise you are breaking the law and the government may come after you to recoup the monies that you received up to the amount of your retirement pay.  Ouch!

__________

Lessons Learned:

1.  Your security clearance is a big deal for many employers because obtaining one costs thousands of dollars, and if you have an active clearance (particularly a Top Secret one) it makes you a more desirable candidate.  Misrepresenting the status of your clearance, however, makes you a knucklehead.

2.  Conflict of interest is a very murky and thorny problem.  You can get yourself, your new company, and possibly other people in a lot of hot water (and potentially legal trouble) if you are not careful.  Talk to your local Staff Judge Advocate if you have even an inkling that there may be a conflict between your current job in uniform and the one you are pursuing.

3.  Even though you are retired you are still considered to be an office holder in the U. S. Government and as such must ask for permission to work for a foreign government.  This can even apply to you if you are not directly employed by a foreign government but your company is; for example if you are in a law firm or consultant company and you receive a share of the profits that are received from a foreign government it is considered to be in violation of the law.  Make sure that you are not going to get into trouble by researching who your prospective employer’s customers are.

Interviewing, part 3: Curveballs and questionable questions

Posted by Mike Grice on

The purpose of a job interview is to determine whether or not you are suitable to join a company’s team.  How the interviewer figures that out, however, can be unusual, uncomfortable, and sometimes downright odd.  It can also be illegal.  You need to be prepared for when the interview goes in an unexpected direction.

You expect to be asked about your experience, skills, education, and training during a job interview.  You may not be expecting some of the tools that companies use in their hiring process to find the best candidates for the job,  though.  Some companies will ask you to take a personality test (to see what you are really like), submit a handwriting sample (to be analyzed by handwriting experts), have your picture taken (so that others who are involved in the hiring process can see what you look like),  or something equally strange.  These questions and tests are perfectly legal, even if they seem a bit unusual.

What about questions that are not legal?

There are some questions that are not permitted, by law, to be asked of an applicant.  Although they vary from state to state, they generally fall somewhere in the following list:

  • Age
  • Gender, sex, or sexual preference
  • Race, ethnicity, or heritage
  • Disability
  • Faith or religious beliefs
  • Marital status
  • Pregnancy or children

There are a few more for serving military veterans:

  • Classification of discharge
  • Military related disability status (particularly PTSD)
  • Post-military benefits status (healthcare, pension, etc.)
  • Whether you are in the National Guard and Reserves

Professional interviewers are well aware of which questions are permitted and which are not.  Not all interviews are conducted by professional hiring managers, though.  Many are conducted by small business owners, retail store managers, restaurant chefs, or anyone in business who needs to staff a position in their organization.  These interviewers may ask a question that they shouldn’t without realizing it, but even though they don’t know the law they are still required to follow it.

There is another possibility, too.  The person conducting the interview may be asking you questions that they know are illegal but they ask them anyway.

Regardless of the circumstance, when one of these questions is laid on the table it is up to you to figure out what to do about it.  You have about a millisecond to decide whether you will answer it or not.  How much do you want the job?  That it what it all boils down to in the end.  If you stonewall, refuse to answer, or debate the legality of the question with the interviewer the probability of you landing the job will rapidly approach zero.  However, if you feel that the interviewer is crossing the line intentionally, then perhaps the company is not really a place where you would like to work anyway.

You have to ask yourself the simple question: “Is answering that question worth getting a job with this company?”  If you answer yes, then do as you are asked.  If not, then don’t.  It is a simple as that.  The downside is that you are certainly guaranteeing that you won’t get the job.  Do you have to answer an illegal question or fulfill an odd request?

Nope.  You can say no.  And probably not get the job.  It is up for you to decide.

__________

Lessons Learned:

– Not everyone conducting an interview is a professional.  They may ask questions that they shouldn’t out of ignorance.

– There are illegal questions, unusual questions, and uncomfortable questions.  Regardless of where those questions lie on the spectrum, it is up to you as to whether or not to answer them.

– There are some questions that pertain specifically to serving military and veterans.  Your military and VA benefits are personal in nature, as is any pension of disability payment that you receive.  Disclosing any of that information is up to you, should any such questions come up.

– It all boils down to how much you want to work at the company.  Questions may be asked innocuously, and making a big deal out of it will likely cost you a job offer.

Not so traditional job interviews, part 2: Lunch, Dinner, and Cocktails

Posted by Mike Grice on

There are many kinds of interviews, and we have covered quite a few of them thus far.  Today we are going to take a trip to your hiring manager’s favorite restaurant or bar and learn about just how similar interviewing for a job is with a drink or a cheeseburger in your hand is to a traditional interview.

Just how similar is it, you ask?

It is a little similar.  And it is completely, totally, and utterly different at the same time.

It is similar to all interviews in that the goal of the interview never changes: the company wants to fill a staffing need and you want to find a job.

That’s about where the similarity ends.  The devil is in the details, and there are a lot of details to an interview in a bar or a restaurant.  Trust me.

Why would a company want to conduct an interview outside the office?  There are a lot of reasons, but we’ll drill down into four significant ones:

  • First, you may not be able to get your schedules to align during working hours, and the hiring manager may simply find it easier to interview you outside the normal workday.
  • Second, it may be a small company.  Small companies often don’t have hiring managers, or may not even have managers at all.  Small business owners may be busy running their businesses during normal hours and the only way they can squeeze interviews in is to meet with you for a meal or a drink.
  • Third, the company may still be feeling you out.  The interviewing process is often a lengthy one that may begin with a phone call that is followed by a lunch meeting and then, if things go well, a more formal interview at the firm.
  • Fourth, the company may be seeing what kind of person you are outside the formal interviewing arena.  They want to observe your manners, your social awareness, etiquette, etcetera.  This is particularly the case for positions that place the employee in the public’s view, because the firm doesn’t want to hire a caveman to represent them in the business world.  It is also an opportunity for the company to evaluate how well you will fit into their culture by observing you in a social environment.

Regardless of the circumstance under which you find yourself in this type of interview, the most important thing to remember is that you are being observed, evaluated, and judged from the second you meet up to the second that you leave.  Don’t forget it!

The best way to proceed with an interview at a restaurant is to treat it like a date.  You don’t want to look like an idiot in front of a prospective significant other, and you certainly don’t want to look like an idiot in front of a potential employer.  This type of interview is one where you can really make a knockout impression or have the opposite effect of making the person across the table run screaming out the door.

The choice is yours.

The basics in dating apply to lunch or dinner with a hiring manager.  Dress nicely, just as you would for an interview, show up a few minutes early, and double check yourself in your car’s rearview mirror before you get out of the car.  It is always embarrassing to find out after it is all over that your necktie was crooked or that your was hair is sticking up like Don King’s.

You should also do a little homework about the restaurant before you go.  Look at their menu online, and decide what you would like ahead of time.  The hiring manager probably uses the restaurant routinely and knows exactly what to order and it will be awkward for you if you are stumped by what to order when the waiter shows up.  I recommend that you order a salad because it is easy to eat with a knife and fork (not your hands!) and will not put you in the awkward position of trying to eat the world’s greasiest cheeseburger without making a mess out of yourself in front of your interviewer.

That brings me to a significant point about military people, food, and table manners.  Most military folks view consuming food as a method of calorie loading: we need to feed the machine to keep the machine going.  We eat too fast, talk while we eat, and generally just shovel it in, starting on one side of the plate and stopping when we run out of food on the other side.  Not only is this not a way to impress a date, it is certainly not a way to impress an interviewer.

Remember your manners: be polite to everyone (including your server!), use the proper utensils (don’t eat everything with your spoon because of years and years of experience eating rations with the issued plastic spoon), and SLOW DOWN!  A good rule of thumb is to take a bite, chew it at least ten times, swallow, and then take another bite.  Take small bites and pace how quickly you eat your meal with the interviewer.  You will be talking through the meal, and it is quite embarrassing to try to answer a question right after you shove half of a steak into your gaping maw.  To help with this, try paying attention to yourself the next time you eat alone — I’ll bet you will be surprised at how much the military lifestyle has affected your table manners as you mow down French fries like a belt fed machine gun.

Treat your interviewer with the same deference and respect as you would a date.  Allow them to be seated first, and follow their lead in ordering.  Avoid alcohol and drink sparkling water or iced tea.  Remember, you are being evaluated through the entire process, and if they sense that you are a three martini lunch kind of person then you will likely find yourself pursuing an interview with another company.

Place your napkin in your lap and keep your elbows off the table.  As with a date, it is a good idea to have some topics of conversation ready.  Lunch and dinner interviews tend to be a bit more informal and social, and the hiring manager is feeling you out to see if you are a social match with the company in addition to asking about your skills.  Remember the rules of the military mess: do not discuss politics, religion, or sex. Any one of those topics will be a guaranteed job loser.  Even if the interviewer initiates a conversation on one of those topics do your absolute best to steer the discussion back to the company and your interest in working there.  One thing that may help is reading the newspaper before you go to the interview or listening to the news on the radio in order to have something to chat about when you need to fill some time.

Here are a couple of other do’s and don’ts:  don’t complain about the food (do you want to look like a whiner?), don’t get a to-go box for your uneaten food (you will look cheap), don’t order dessert unless the interviewer does, and lastly do be both appreciative and gracious when he or she picks up the tab.  It is assumed that the company is paying the bill, but it is good form to be thankful for the free lunch or dinner that you just enjoyed.

So there are some tips for an interview over a meal, but what about an interview in a bar or lounge?  That is again similar, but also different.

Think of being interviewed in a bar as the same as running through a minefield in your underwear — it can be both embarrassing and potentially lethal for your career.  You can do just fine, however, if you treat it as an interview the entire time you are in the bar.  My recommendation is to order one drink and nurse it all night.  The best drink to order is a Gin and Tonic because you can just keep topping it off with tonic or soda water and nobody will ever know.  Keep the conversation clean and on topic, and even if the interviewer gets hammered don’t give into temptation to join him down the boozy trail!

You may be interviewed in a bar for the same reasons as you would be for a meal, but now you have the added factor of involving alcohol.  This is a big deal because we all act differently after a few shots of loudmouth juice.  Here how an interview at a bar can change everything:

A prospective employee spends an afternoon interviewing with a company.  He meets people at varying levels of the company and impresses them all with his savvy demeanor and job skills.  So much so, he thinks, that they invite him out for drinks after work.

While having a few cocktails he shifts out of “jobseeker” mode and back into “military” mode, complete with a liberal sprinkling of the “F” bomb and barracks humor.  He had a great time, but was very surprised when he was informed that he would not be working at the company.

The trip to the bar was part of the interview.  They wanted to see what the interviewee was like outside the office, and they learned enough to know that he was not someone that they wanted in their firm.  He blew his shot because he was not savvy enough to see that rule number one of interviewing is that the interview is not over until you start working at the company or they tell you to go away.

Now that is a lesson worth learning.

__________

Lessons Learned:

1.  You are being evaluated the entire time that you are being interviewed, from the moment you walk into the restaurant until the moment you leave.  There are many more things to get wrong in this environment, so limit your possible mistakes by preparing before you go.  Check the restaurant location and menu online before you leave home.

2.  Be ready for some chitchat, but stay away from politics, religion, and sex.

3.  Be polite to everyone.  The interviewer will notice if you are a jerk to the waiter and you will NOT get a job offer.  I guarantee it.

4.  Eat a salad.  Avoid the Monster Burger.

5.  Manners, manners, manners!  Slow down.  Bite, chew, swallow, repeat.  Don’t shovel in your chow like it is the last MRE you will ever eat.

6.  Be gracious and don’t forget to mention how much you enjoyed lunch or dinner in your thank-you note.

7.  If alcohol is involved, order one drink and nurse it.  Keep the barracks language and humor at the barracks.  It has no place in the business world.

The “traditional” job interview, Part 2: Into the Fire

Posted by Mike Grice on

Hello again!

I left you hanging on the edge of your seat in my last post, and today we are going to finish the traditional job interview story.  We left off with you at the coffee shop making your last minute preparations to cross the street and meet with the interviewer.  So go ahead and finish that donut, wash your hands, check yourself in the mirror to make sure that you don’t have crumbs on your shirt.  Let’s go meet the person who will decide your employment fate!

First off, you need to remember that you are most likely being evaluated the second your hand touches the company’s doorknob.  Maybe even before then, depending on the circumstances of your interview.  Here is a real example of how one company evaluates its candidates:

The firm pays to fly candidates out to their headquarters for personal interviews.  It is a thoughtful company that sends a van with a company driver to meet you at the airport and bring you right up to the company’s front door.  She shows you in, and you are directed over to a receptionist who points you to the floor and room where the interview will be conducted.  After a quick trip on the elevator, you meet another receptionist who confirms you are in the right place and notifies the hiring manager that you are there for the interview.  After a few minutes (and right on time) the hiring manger arrives and you head off to the office for the interview.

If you are not paying attention, you would offhandedly think that your interview started when the hiring manager shook your hand.  You would be wrong – dead wrong.  A part of the company’s hiring process is to see what kind of person you are; how you interact with people like van drivers and receptionists.  The hiring manager will certainly go through the interview process with you, but your performance across the desk from the interviewer is only part of the hiring procedure.

The van driver and the receptionists are asked by the interviewer what kind of person you are.  Are you rude to people you consider beneath your level?  Were you polite?  Did you shake hands?  Were you talking on your mobile phone in the van, and if so, was anything you said indicative of a reason not to hire you?  Did you treat the receptionist professionally?  Nicely?  Would they want you to be somebody that they would work with?

This company is not alone in assessing employment candidates on more than their skills and experience.  Culture and manners matters.  Remember that.  This is particularly important to senior military officers and enlisted people who are transitioning.  When you are a Colonel or a Sergeant Major you are in a position of elevated prestige and responsibility that can make you forget that the people at the bottom of the ladder are people too.  This is not an indictment of senior military people (after all, I used to be one), but it is the way the martial game is played.  As a senior leader it is easy to focus on your peers and immediate seniors and juniors because that is how you do your job and accomplish your mission.  Senior leaders are often so focused on their level that they don’t really see the people many levels below them.

If you treat people at the company like junior subordinates on your way to the job interview it won’t go well.  That way of thinking is archaic in the corporate sector, and you had best be conscious of it or it will severely limit your ability to find a job.

Anyhow, back to the interviewing process.  You walk through the door and meet the receptionist.  Be professional, polite, and shake his or her hand. This is your chance to make a positive first impression.  You don’t need to be artificial or insincere, but just be polite.  A smile goes a long way, too.

From there you are off to meet the hiring manager.  This is where you get a chance to make a second first impression, but this time with the hiring manager instead of the receptionist.  Go in, take the seat that they offer, and get ready to prove why you are the right guy or gal for the job.

Here are a few pointers for those first critical moments of the job interview:

1.  Have a firm, but not crushing, handshake.

2.  Look the interviewer in the eye, and thank them immediately for the opportunity to meet with him or her.  Practice this!!  In your rehearsal make sure to go over what you are going to say when you meet the interviewer so that you don’t get tongue tied.  Something as simple as: “Hi.  I’m Mike, and I want to thank you for the opportunity to meet with you today.”

3.  Don’t come in carrying a bunch of stuff, and turn your mobile phone completely off!  You should have your right hand free to shake the interviewer’s hand, and your left hand should be carrying either a briefcase (which is overkill unless you were asked to bring something along that requires a briefcase) or a nice looking notebook (not a high school spiral notebook or pad of sticky notes, but a folio or pad and paper set that is professional, conservative, and not tattered).  Make sure to have a nice pen – something that looks professional and does not have “SKILCRAFT US GOVERNMENT” stamped on the side.

4.  Focus your attention on the interviewer.  Don’t look around the office like a visitor at a museum.  You are there to get a job, not admire the books on the shelf.

5.  Sit down on the front half of the chair, fold your hands into your lap, and smile.  Don’t kick back, cross your legs, and drape your arms over the chair.  As the interview unfolds you can relax a bit, but if your mannerisms indicate you are a slacker then it does not matter how well you dress- you will be regarded as a well-dressed and unhired slacker.

So now the first few moments are over.  The interviewer is evaluation you on everything you do and say, so keep that in mind.  Don’t bite your fingernails, or pick your nose, or check your phone.  Sit upright, look at the interviewer, and answer his or her questions.

Think of the interview questions as opportunities for you to show why you are qualified and how well you can express yourself.  Don’t turn a question into a monologue by rambling on for five or ten minutes.  In your rehearsal you should focus on answering each question in a period of thirty seconds to two minutes.  Any longer than that and you will likely start to bore the interviewer.  Besides, you probably can’t say anything in ten minutes that you can’t articulate in two.

Don’t try to answer them exactly as you did in your rehearsal, but instead listen closely to the question, take a breath, and then answer it as straightforwardly and honestly as you can.  Leave your military jargon and barracks language at home – nobody, and I mean nobody, in the corporate sector is impressed by the liberal use of the “F”-bomb in an interview.

Also, it is not an interrogation, so it is ok for you to ask a few questions as well.  Just make sure that they aren’t stupid (like “how much will I make?” or “what is the vacation and sick day policy at the company?”).

Make sure to answer the questions that the interviewer asks.  Don’t try to steer the conversation in a different direction, but instead provide the answers that interviewer is looking for.  No BS, either!  If you don’t know an answer or are unsure of what the question is actually asking, be honest and say you don’t know or need the question to be rephrased.  The hiring manager has interviewed countless people before you, and your probability of fooling them with a BS response is about zero.  Plus it will show that you are not the type of person that they want to hire.

During the interview you may be asked if you would like something to drink.  Always ask for water.  That way you won’t have any hot coffee to spill on yourself or carbonation from a soda making you want to burp at exactly the wrong moment.

Be prepared for signals that the interview is wrapping up.  The interviewer may be up front and say that your time is up, or may begin saying things like “Do you have any last questions?”.  When the interview is over, it is over.  Don’t try to push the issue with stupid questions like “what are my chances to be hired?” or “how soon will you let me know your decision?” as they put the interviewer on the spot.  He or she will let you know how you will be contacted – let them lead with the information.  Don’t be needy and try to wheedle it out of them ahead of time.

When it is time to go, stand up, pick up your notebook, and shake the interviewer’s hand.  Thank them again for the opportunity to meet with them, and follow their lead from there.  They may escort you to the receptionist or all the way to the exit.  Feel free to make some small talk on the way out, but do not forget that the interview is not over until you are sitting in your car!  Many jobs have been lost because the interviewee blows it on the way out of the building by doing something stupid (like being rude to a receptionist, throwing the “F”-bomb around, or picking their nose in the hallway).

The last step in the interview is to write and send a thank you note to the interviewer.  No kidding.  A thank you note.  This will show your sincerity as well as cement your desire to work at the company.  Many hiring managers will not hire a person who neglects to send a thank you note.  It is an expectation and an essential element of business correspondence.  If you don’t have any thank you notes at home, stop by a stationery store and pick some up, or even better, have personalized notecards made.  It is a nice touch.

__________

Lessons learned:

1.  The interview is your opportunity to present yourself in the best light possible – dress well, be well groomed, be polite, and use professional language.  Not doing any one of the above will likely result in you not getting a job.

2.  Be respectful and polite to every person you meet.  You should assume that they are part of the hiring team at the company, and if you are rude to the receptionist the word will get out.

3.  The first moments of an interview are critical- don’t blow a shot at a great first impression.  Be on time, well dressed, polite, and turn off your phone!

4.  Answer the questions you are asked- don’t try to BS the interviewer.  Also, answer in a period of thirty seconds to two minutes.  No monologues.

5.  If a drink is offered, make it water.  Coffee, tea, or soda may be more tasty, but you are not there to get  refreshments.  You are there to get a job, and the possibility of disaster through spilled coffee or an errant soda-caused burp are not worth it.